Hesitant to Evaluate (again)

[Overwhelmed]

2e kid (gifted/adhd, 5th grade), has 504 and behavior problems. Initial IEP evaluation (kinder) said he didn't qualify, ups and downs with behavior but overall and upward trend (with outside help) Recent dip and showing a lot of emotion

Recent school meeting to tell us all the things that are wrong, bleak picture for middle school, will be suspended soon, the normal grilling to see what we are doing and what 'we' could do better. At the very end, IEP evaluation was suggested by a staff member. 

Evaluations (we had outside ones too) are very rough on the kid and us.  If we felt there was legit support that would help (in addition to our outside help) we'd be more interested.   But we can't get a handle on what that might look like, what could actually be done that won't make him self conscious.
Can get all kinds of Qs answered but NO ONE will say examples of S/E services the school can provide. Or the district. Closest I got was 1 description of 1 social emotional goal and nothing about what the service they used to address their example goal

Anyone experienced problems because they evaluated S/E at the school? 
Pitfalls for 2e kids?

Is it worth it?

[JSD24]

I don't feel evals are the issue.  No eval = no IEP & no help.  If the child you see is not what the eval shows, you need to ask for an IEE.

With a 2E child who will not want pullouts or to have a stalker (my daughter's term for a 1:1) at school, my suggestion is Ross Greene.  Behavior is communication and finding a way to ask a 2E child what he's communicating is where I'd focus.  CPS is researched to do this and fix things but it's not a quick solution.

 

[Jenna]

As JSD24 said, without evaluations, there is no IEP or specially designed instruction. IEPs provide more protections to the student than a 504 plan.

Were the private evaluations done recently? If so, and if you are comfortable doing so, you could share those with the district and ask if the district would accept those evaluations. If the private evals are old or the district wants to do their own evals, ask the district more questions about their special education evaluation process and how they would make your child comfortable so as to get an accurate snapshot of his strengths and challenges. Parent permission is needed for the district to evaluate for special education services, and in my state, the school is also required to get the parent's consent to implement an initial IEP.

[Overwhelmed]

Thank you for suggestions (love your daughter's dark humor btw - these kids are gems!) Will check out Ross Green. When ADHD handled well the other challenges are sooooooo much better.  Are schools not allowed to say what they can do/have to offer? 1:1 would not fly at all, pull outs probably not unless handled just right (gifted classes are pull out so the concept isn't new, but ending up in resource room may be an issue).  Exec function help might be worth it if its done right. If there's a fun lunch group with social skills or S/E games or something that preserves self esteem maybe we'd consider? 
But no info, no clues - just crickets when we ask. It just seems like a red flag they won't share any idea of services a S/E only kid 'could receive', has received, etc.

A few times in past years they dangled alternate placement (as either bad 'alternative school' or good 'you should go to xyz for their gifted program' which we know he would do terribly in both. Could this whole thing be used to keep encouraging alternate placement?  if 2e child does qualify half expecting to hear 'we can't service him here.'

The prospect of doing another eval (let alone two) if we don't think we could get actual help is truly overwhelming. The only conclusive/fully completed eval was limited, but was able to get meds, supports outside school, and believe we managed to use just one section of it listing 'necessary accomodations' to get 504.  Thought about sharing more - their privacy approach is probably 'technically legal' but not handled well based on how staff has addressed child.  
 

[Overwhelmed]

@Jenna oops, yes, the 'conclusive' evaluation was done in Fall 2021 so a little over a year.  I'm also wondering if I can ask for an FBA without it being an official IEP request.  Anyone done this for a 504 kid?

Realize I may be the only oddball on this forum questioning if the IEP process is worth it - to people who have fought and fought to even get an eval let alone a plan.   We were previously told by local neuropsych and a 2e parent who got nowhere not to expect much of any valuable services for this situation/lots of IEP denials, and another  one warning of labels. Hence my  line of questioning about 'is it worth it' and 'has this ever caused problems for anyone' for a kid with a 504 ?

[Jenna]

IEPs are supposed to be based on the child's individual needs- as would be identified/eligibility determined through the school's evaluations. All areas of need should be evaluated for each child, and services and supports should be provided to address those areas of need.

This is why the school may be very hesitant to say what they could potentially provide with an IEP if they haven't done evaluations and gone through the IEP process. Placement (such as being in the general education setting all day, or a % of the day with some time in a resource room, or- an alternate placement if needed) is one of the last things considered in the development of an IEP. Schools cannot predetermine a child's IEP; they must first do evaluations and the parents should be involved in the development of the IEP. All this would require your consent. Talking with parents of other similar children in the district could help give you an idea of things you could expect, but the school won't determine what could be offered until after evaluations are completed.

If your child is facing possible suspension, there are risks with that as well, including the child having a "label." None of us are labels; we are all humans with unique strengths and challenges. A child with an IEP has more protections than a child on a 504 plan. A school psychologist or a BCBA could conduct an FBA as part of the district's evaluations. 

[JSD24]

What I've found with my 2E child was that the school didn't do the correct evals so there were no areas of need that showed an IEP was needed.  The areas my daughter struggled with were pragmatics and social skills.  When they did evaluate social skills, my child scored in the 2nd percentile.  (I was told that kids with ID - Downs Syndrome - scored around the 8th percentile.)  I had to beg for pragmatics to be evaluated.  They did the TOPL but not the optional extended part.  She scored average but I think she was able to mask her issues due to being gifted & I was told the extended part would have pushed her past her limits.  About 9 months later, I was at an IEP meeting and they said they see issues with pragmatics & I brought up the results of their testing.  There are assessments for executive functioning - they tend to be rating scales where the adults fill them out.  You can ask for the school to look at that.  My child had a 504 for EF.  She had a teacher who checked that she was writing down her assignments and bringing needed material home for homework.

I feel that schools don't say what they do in sp ed because there is such a wide variety of what services a student can need.  In older grades, they teach cooking, cleaning, shopping, budgeting, how to ride a bus/train, read a bus schedule, job skills through job shadowing & volunteer jobs.  I was told if the school doesn't currently offer something that meets a student's needs, they have to come up with a way to meet them - could be in another school/district too.

I'd rather my child get evaluated and get the support they need than be suspended.  Did you share your results from the outside eval with the school?

Gifted students will often not be academically challenged in the younger grades.  They don't 'learn how to learn' because of this.  At some point - generally toward middle school, they hit a wall and can't figure out something because they lack the skills.  This is when they will tend to misbehave.  Your child might not feel it's OK to ask for help but we all need help sometimes.  Mention the times you ask for help.  Let her know you don't know about plumbing and don't have the tools to put new tires on your car's rims...or put a roof on your home or raise cattle for beef.  We all lean on each other.

[Overwhelmed]

Thank you all. Past evaluations (in and out of school) triggered and created problems (emotionally plus the bonus of invalid data). So we agreed after the last one (smaller, psych only) to take a break from it all, work on what we could outside school environment and use 504 accommodations (which the school has been supportive of) in the meantime. Seeing improvement but know there's more to go -  there are missing puzzle pieces.

Perhaps I am just clueless on how some of these softer items are evaluated (and yes we do use all the 'right' ways to explain evals and support to kid). Or even what schools consider 'education' outside the traditional academic lens so our thick skulls could 'get' how they could close the gap in current school environment if the data supported it. That's what I've been chasing, thinking it would be easier to get family consensus to start the drama all up again if I could show the benefits (versus waiting to request/consent until start of next school year). 

The school psychologist made reference to starting an FBA if we were ok with that. A local center said we could ask for/consent to an FBA without  requesting/consenting to IEP evaluation - anyone experience that?  Since its observational only don't think it would trigger problems so feel I could get family consensus on approving that.

[Jenna]

 You can notify the school of what evaluations you do & don't consent to. So if you only agree with them conducting an FBA right now, you can let them know that.