Persistently Persistent

There were so many things wrong with the way this was set up. They only allowed one hour for eight people to discuss a fairly complex document they’d never seen before, in an unfamiliar and confusing format. they arrived 25 minutes late, but proceeded anyway. It seemed like their plan was a quick run through of the IEP they developed outside the meeting and then hand dad a pen to sign off. I slowed things down w questions, we didn’t get to the end of the IEP before everybody had to leave, we had to reschedule. We requested that the rescheduled meeting be two hours. They indicated that they saw this as a significant accommodation, impossible to meet in a timely manner. They rescheduled the meeting for three months later, June. we did engage an outside facilitator for the follow-up meeting. It did make a difference in their responsiveness. We signed the papers agreeing to initiate the evaluation in November, they didn’t conduct the evaluation until March. Extending the IEP meeting date til June meant the student did not receive any help for the entire year of 8th grade. The student is now in high school, with the IEP developed last June but never implemented. Her high school has very different services and resources, so the IEP is not very helpful, but they won’t revisit it until the end of the semester. It’s like dad said it feels like they don’t really want his daughter to be successful in school. there are a lot of different issues, for sure, but specifically dad would like to know the law on the use of interpreters.

I’m interested in what the law says about interpreters. It doesn’t feel good to have the school district bring an interpreter, pay for an interpreter, that dad doesn’t want. For me, the larger question is who gets to decide if a parent needs an interpreter or not?

I am advocating for a Family, English is not their home language. Dad does not want an interpreter at the IEP meeting. he doesn’t feel he needs it, his social anxiety is too high to allow him to use one in front of 10 adults he doesn’t know, and the district only scheduled one hour for the IEP meeting—he knows this is not enough time for him to use an interpreter We told the district he doesn’t want an interpreter, but they are making the choice for him— they insist they will have one there. When I go to the federal Department of Ed website, it looks like schools have to offer an interpreter and if a parent declines, they have to offer a form to sign declining the interpreter; it’s the parents choice. Am I reading this right? Does the dad have the right to decline? And does the district have to give him a form allowing him to decline?

Our student is about to turn 15. She does not want to participate in an IEP meeting with a bunch of grownups from her school/she doesn’t know. the facilitator from the school district told her she has to. What are the rules about student participation?

Thank you. In our state parents have to sign that they’ve read the IEP, but the district doesn’t need parent sign off to implement their plan.

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices. Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school. We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

As I read through this forum, and other ADIOS postings I get the impression that parents matter in this process, but pretty sure our school district would disagree. If the school ignores every communication we initiate with them, without responding, and with no consequence, where’s the parental leverage? if the district is free to ignore a request for PWN, what’s the point of submitting such a request? We’re told it’s important to create a paper trail. But If there are no consequences for simply ignoring the parents, how does a paper trail help? If the district can initiate the IEP without parental consent, and doesn’t value parental input, where is their motivation to work with parents? If the school can run out the clock without having provided any services, with no consequence, where is the parent’s leverage? Our district is ignoring us. we don’t see that we have the slightest leverage, and the school district clearly doesn’t think we have the slightest leverage either.

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices. Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school. We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices. Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school. We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

Thank you. I communicated with them. I requested in advance copy of the IEP they brought to the first meeting. I brought written feedback on that IEP, a copy for each person in the room, and I spoke up in the first meeting. No notes were taken of the meeting, (or at least none were shared,) so there was no record of any of our feedback or their response. then I followed up with thorough written feedback on the second draft and reiterated the comments I made at the initial meeting. They literally have not acknowledge that we have communicated with them in anyway. So I sent them a request for PWN on six items that we’ve been asking about that they have declined to acknowledge, address or respond to. They have not acknowledged our request for PWN, let alone responded to it. The “second draft” of the IEP is not different from the first one in anyway except that they have invited a bunch more administrators. I let them know that dad (limited English proficient, limited education, high social anxiety, extremely intimidated by people who act in charge; not a meeting kind of guy) is really intimidated by all of the brass that they now have coming to the meeting, (not to mention that there are now seven people at the meeting who could not pick our student out of a lineup, and three people who actually know her) and could we please only include the people who are necessary. Again, they didn’t acknowledge my communication. I spoke with a local advocate, she said that the IEP meeting is the district’s meeting and they can have whomever they want there, they don’t have to explain why they want them there or what their role is . And since they ignore any attempt we make to communicate with them, I would not expect an answer from them. we are trying to be clear and forthright about what we think our student needs, and they are not communicating with us in any way: they haven’t responded to any written communication we’ve sent their way, there are no notes of any comments we made at the initial IEP meeting, and they are unwilling to share anything about their thinking behind what’s important to them/the choices they made in their IEP. Something as simple as…. I asked who was on the committee that developed the IEP they brought to the first meeting. They wouldn’t tell us

We all signed the paperwork agreeing that our student needed to be evaluated last November. The testing finally started in February and an initial IEP meeting was scheduled for mid March. They didn’t allow enough meeting time and started late, so we did not get through the IEP. Apparently the follow up meeting was scheduled for late April; the district staff all showed up, but they forgot to notify the family! They added several district administrators to the team, which makes scheduling more complicated; the second half of the initial IEP meeting was re-scheduled for mid May. We requested an outside facilitator. We made a point of asking the state if they could identify someone who could come to the May meeting already on the books, so that we could keep moving forward. They selected someone who said she was available for the May meeting, but after being assigned she said she wanted to reschedule. The district added two more administrators to the team, and the now the new meeting date is 2 1/2 months out from the initial aborted IEP meeting. Our student is going to end middle school having received no help. we’ve received some comments from district and school folks indicating that we need to sign this IEP fast, or there will be some kind of consequences because it has dragged on so long. We feel that we have done everything we could think of to try and goose this along, it’s not our fault that we are looking at a meeting nearly 7 months from the day we signed the paperwork agreeing our child needed help. The delays are on their side, and adding all of these administrators makes it hard to schedule anything in a timely manner. we felt a lot of urgency in November, December, January, February, March, and April, but now that it is too late for our child to get any help from middle school, it doesn’t make sense to us to sit in a room full of middle school administrators making a plan about what’s going to happen in high school. But we’re told that’s not allowed, there’s some kind of major consequence if we don’t sign off on this quickly, while she’s in middle school. our sense of urgency has evaporated, we are focused on trying to get an IEP that we hope will serve her in high school. But we’re getting pressured to sign off on the district’s IEP. What are the important considerations in our situation? What is the consequence if the clock runs out while she is still in middle school, or if no IEP is agreed to seven months after the process has been initiated?

Is the district required to respond to a PWN? We haven’t received a response.

I found a POA for education. It gives the family’s chosen advocate all of the powers that a parent has, and the school has to treat them like they would the parent (send them meeting notices, get their sign-off, etc.) but it doesn’t reduce the parents’ powers in any way. I’m happy to share it if anyone needs one.

Thank you. Second meeting hasn’t happened. We requested an outside facilitator and we’re waiting for him/her to re-schedule the meeting. Hopefully This delay will give us the opportunity to include someone from the high school.

We sent them a request for PWN, we listed six services/resources that we requested in writing, but which they haven’t acknowledged/addressed/denied; just pretended we never mentioned any of them. is there a timeframe within which they are supposed to respond to requests for prior written notice? At this point we are six months out from the day they agreed to evaluate our child, passed the deadline to get an IEP in place, and mere weeks before summer vacation starts. Regrettably we’ve given up on the hope that our child would get some services while still in junior high. It seems like now the jr hi IEP committee will be focused on what should happen when she gets to high school next year, a place they know very little about. SMH

How do we word the request for PWN? Do we just say: "Please provide us with Prior Written Notice for the district's refusal to complete a Functional Behavioral Assessment of our student's school avoidance." Do we include the explanation for why we believe they should help with this?

We had our first IEP meeting, following the assessment. There wasn't enough time and they started late, so we have a date for the second half coming up. I just got the invitation to the follow-up meeting. I notice that they've added three new administrators to the list of attendees! The district IEP facilitator for our child's grade level facilitated the first meeting, and will be returning. The new attendees are the Deputy Director of Special Ed for the District, the principal of her school, and a vice principal from her school! (hard to believe two administrators for a school with 900+ students are available to participate in one little girl's IEP, but there ya go...) Having four top administrators (who we don't know, and who don't know our student) significantly changes the complexion of the meeting. Dad is feeling intimidated. He wonders if that's their intention. Is there anything about this in the Sped law, that districts can't overwhelm parents with their presence? (One additional concern I have is that the line staff, the only other people in the room who actually know our child, will not feel free to speak up with so much brass in attendance.)

Does anyone have a boilerplate POA-Education they'd be willing to share? Asking for a limited education/limited English proficient parent about to go to her first IEP, who is intimidated by school folks. A special ed attorney advised her to get/sign a POA for education so that her advocate can be recognized as a member of the IEP committee. The attorney said that without a POA the district can ignore the advocate's input, (the family trusts her completely to represent their interests) or even ask the advocate to leave the meeting if they want. Someone asked if she means an "Educational Surrogate" She said the lawyer didn't use this term. What is an educational surrogate and how is it different from a POA-E?

With 40% attendance and 20% assignment completion, which they reference in the IEP they developed, I think they have the data they need to document that she is not succeeding in school.

Murmer, I don’t understand the value of the PWN in this case. They are making it clear that they don’t care what we say. And since they can implement the IEP without family agreement what’s the benefit of PWN?

Yes, they did an evaluation. It was ordered in November, and conducted in late February. She has significant attentional issues, generalized anxiety and major depression, but no identifiable learning disabilities and, academically, she’s testing at grade level, (purely by osmosis.) School avoidance is a big issue, she’s only attended 40% of the time this year, but they are saying that the family has to solve this as a prerequisite to receiving services. In the meeting I said we’re not asking for help getting her to the school house door, but there’s a reason she’s avoiding school and we would like some help with that. They just said “no.” Getting her work completed and turned in is another big issue. She’s only turned in 20% of her assignments this year— almost all in-class assignments. That’s why we are hoping she could go to the executive skills class before the end of the year. also, she can read, but she is a seriously reluctant reader. I’m guessing she’s read fewer than 10 books in her entire life. If she doesn’t become a more efficient reader, she will not finish high school, let alone go to college. We asked them for help with her reading because we believe it’s directly related to her ADHD, but several places in the IEP they say “we’re not helping with reading because she knows how to read.” This child has two older siblings, each five years apart, who have the same issues she does. I’m guessing if they had ever been evaluated, they would look exactly the same. They received no help of any kind and then, at the end of their freshman years in high school, they were called into their counselor’s office and assisted to transfer to the GED track. (All 3 are Fall babies, so they were turning 16 at the beginning of sophomore year) these are bright, capable girls, their life trajectories were altered forever by the lack of help from school. It breaks my heart to see a third sister following the same track. I realize she’s not as challenged as her DD stepsister or deaf cousin, but her challenges are real.

Thank you. We are having a second meeting because they allowed just one hour for the initial meeting, but then started 25 minutes late the District employee who presented the IEP to the committee did not solicit any input from anyone. My impression is that she planned to present her IEP, get a parent sign off, and it would be done, with no discussion. there was no opportunity for consensus because no one else at the meeting spoke. I don’t know if they were intimidated by the district representative or what, but no one said a single word except me and the presenter. The presenter would present something I would give feedback and she would simply wait a beat then move onto the next issue. In two cases where we were requesting specific assistance which was not included in her IEP she just said they’re not going to do it, and moved on to the next item. She didn’t acknowledge or address any feedback we gave to the IEP she was presenting, and none of my feedback is included in the second draft. Yes, that’s right our child is not receiving any services and we’re heading for 6 months from the date that they agreed to do the testing (the 60 days was drawn out because they started the first week of November and there were so many holidays and teacher in-service, grading days, etc. etc.) now we’re in a waiting pattern because we asked that we have a two hour meeting instead of returning multiple times for one hour meetings, but they said that trying to schedule a two hour meeting is a time-consuming challenge for them. (I understand that it might take a while to hold the meeting but I don’t understand why it has been two weeks and they still haven’t scheduled the meeting.) We asked why our student could not attend this class and we were told it’s because parents have to give permission for her to take a class that’s not part of the standard curriculum and the only way we can do that is my signing the IEP I called the state thinking they might help us. The special ed person I spoke with seemed to believe that the district could be doing a better job and referred me to the department’s legal counsel, but he seems to think the district is doing everything it should be doing. For example, I asked, isn’t the presenter supposed to be soliciting input/facilitating a discussion among parents/the people who know our student? The state rep said “that would be very inefficient.”

Thank you. We are having a second meeting because they allowed just one hour for the initial meeting, but then started 25 minutes late the District employee who presented the IEP to the committee did not solicit any input from anyone. My impression is that she planned to present her IEP, get a parent sign off, and it would be done, with no discussion. there was no opportunity for consensus because no one else at the meeting spoke. I don’t know if they were intimidated by the district representative or what, but no one said a single word except me and the presenter. The presenter would present something I would give feedback and she would simply wait a beat then move onto the next issue. In two cases where we were requesting specific assistance which was not included in her IEP she just said they’re not going to do it, and moved on to the next item. She didn’t acknowledge or address any feedback we gave to the IEP she was presenting, and none of my feedback is included in the second draft. Yes, that’s right our child is not receiving any services and we’re heading for 6 months from the date that they agreed to do the testing (the 60 days was drawn out because they started the first week of November and there were so many holidays and teacher in-service, grading days, etc. etc.) now we’re in a waiting pattern because we asked that we have a two hour meeting instead of returning multiple times for one hour meetings, but they said that trying to schedule a two hour meeting is a time-consuming challenge for them. (I understand that it might take a while to hold the meeting but I don’t understand why it has been two weeks and they still haven’t scheduled the meeting.) We asked why our student could not attend this class and we were told it’s because parents have to give permission for her to take a class that’s not part of the standard curriculum and the only way we can do that is my signing the IEP I called the state thinking they might help us. The special ed person I spoke with seemed to believe that the district could be doing a better job and referred me to the department’s legal counsel, but he seems to think the district is doing everything it should be doing. For example, I asked, isn’t the presenter supposed to be soliciting input/facilitating a discussion among parents/the people who know our student? The state rep said “that would be very inefficient.”

An IEP was prepared in private by people who don’t know our student and then presented as a done deal at the IEP meeting which involved parents, teacher, bilingual special Ed teacher. Thanks to coaching from this forum we requested an advanced copy of any documents the district planned to bring. We gave brought careful written feedback to hand out to each person at the meeting. The district IEP presenter walked us through the IEP. She had prepared. After the meeting, we gave very careful thorough item by item, written feedback again. Then we got a second draft from the district IEP presenter, which did not include any of the points we raised. It reads as if we didn’t give them any feedback at all, and we never had the family IEP meeting. It’s a slightly word smithed version of the IEP that was prepared in private. We read here a lot about parents speaking up, which we have been doing, but we are being completely ignored. In our state, the district is free to implement the IEP regardless of the parents thoughts about anything. Where is our leverage? we are now nearly 6 months out from the meeting where they agreed to evaluate our child, waiting for the district to schedule a follow up IEP meeting. At this rate The school year will be over before our child receives any services. We asked the district if our child could please start attending an executive skills class which everybody agrees would be good for them, and which they are looking forward to taking, but the district will not allow our child to attend that class until we sign the IEP.