Parent Concerns Ignored. Now What?

[Persistently Persistent]

An IEP was prepared in private by people who don’t know our student and then presented as a done deal at the IEP meeting which involved parents, teacher, bilingual special Ed teacher. Thanks to coaching from this forum we requested an advanced copy of any documents the district planned to bring. We gave brought careful written feedback to hand out to each person at the meeting. The district IEP presenter walked us through the IEP. She had prepared. After the meeting, we gave very careful thorough item by item, written feedback again. Then we got a second draft from the district IEP presenter, which did not include any of the points we raised. It reads as if we didn’t give them any feedback at all, and we never had the family IEP meeting. It’s a slightly word smithed version of the IEP that was prepared in private.
 

We read here  a lot about parents speaking up, which we have been doing, but we are being completely ignored. In our state, the district is free to implement the IEP regardless of the parents thoughts about anything. Where is our leverage?

we are now nearly 6 months out from the meeting where they agreed to evaluate our child, waiting for the district to schedule a follow up IEP meeting.  At this rate The school year will be over before our child receives any services. We asked the district if our child could please start attending an executive skills class which everybody agrees would be good for them, and which they are looking forward to taking, but the district will not allow our child to attend that class until we sign the IEP. 

[Carolyn Rowlett]

I just need a few points of clarification.  If I'm reading your post correctly, you are now on a second draft of the IEP document and are waiting on a follow up meeting because the second draft did not contain any of your parent concerns?  And in the meantime, the IEP is not being implemented?

Here are my suggestions:

1) Make sure the parent concerns are distributed via email to all team members before the meeting - don't just bring a written copy to the meeting (it sounds like you did this after the second meeting).

2) During the meeting, make sure each of your parent concerns are addressed AT the meeting and that a consensus is reached one way or the other on each item BEFORE you leave the meeting.  For each parent concern that is refused, ask that the refusal be noted in the Prior Written Notice.  Also ask that your parent concerns be copied and pasted into the IEP document.  If this is refused, again, ask that this refusal be stated in the PWN.

3) Is the executive skills class part of special education?  If so, then the school would be correct that the child cannot attend until you give consent for special education services.

4) You can sign an IEP agreeing IN PART.  List on the signature page everything you disagree with and every parent concern that was refused.  Then sign that you agree to move forward with the IEP with these exceptions.  That way the services you agree to (executive skills class) can be implemented.

5) I would contact your state department of education and ask what your recourse is for a school district refusing to take parent concerns into consideration.  They may suggest filing a state complaint. 

[Persistently Persistent]

Thank you.
 

We are having a second meeting because they allowed just one hour for the initial meeting, but then started 25 minutes late

the District employee who presented the IEP to the committee did not solicit any input from anyone. My impression is that she planned to present her IEP, get a parent sign off, and it would be done, with no discussion. there was no opportunity for consensus because no one else at the meeting spoke. I don’t know if they were intimidated by the district representative or what, but no one said a single word except me and the presenter. The presenter would present something I would give feedback and she would simply wait a beat then move onto the next issue.

In two cases where we were requesting specific assistance which was not included in her IEP she just said they’re not going to do it,  and moved on to the next item. She didn’t acknowledge or address any feedback we gave to the IEP she was presenting, and none of my feedback  is included in the second draft.

Yes, that’s right our child is not receiving any services and we’re heading for 6 months from the date that they agreed to do the testing  (the 60 days was drawn out because they started the first week of November and there were so many holidays and teacher in-service, grading days, etc. etc.) now we’re in a waiting pattern because we asked that we have a two hour meeting instead of returning multiple times for one hour meetings, but they said that trying to schedule a two hour meeting is a time-consuming challenge for them. (I understand that it might take a while to hold the meeting but I don’t understand why it has been two weeks and they still haven’t scheduled the meeting.)

We asked why our student could not attend this class and we were told it’s because parents have to give permission for her to take a class that’s not part of the standard curriculum and the only way we can do that is my signing the IEP  

I called the state thinking they might help us. The special ed person I spoke with seemed to believe that the district could be doing a better job and referred me to the department’s legal counsel, but he seems to think the district is doing everything it should be doing. For example, I asked, isn’t the presenter supposed to be soliciting input/facilitating a discussion among parents/the people who know our student? The state rep said “that would be very inefficient.”

 

[Murmer]

It's time to get a Prior Written Notification (PWN)...write down all the things you asked for that they said no to...and tell them you want them to be addressed in a PWN. Note this PWN will likely basically say we said no because we said no and we will keep saying no...but getting it in writing is what is important. 

[JSD24]

For the issues that you requested services to address, did the school do an evaluation?  The way IEPs work is the services are based on baseline data.  That data comes from the eval report the school prepared.  If there is no mention of an issue in the report, it's like the issue doesn't exist.  You might need to be requesting an eval for the issues you see so there is baseline data on which to base the services you see are needed.

In other words, look at the eval.  If you don't see the issues you want addressed mentioned as issues, the eval was not in 'all areas of suspected disability' as required by IDEA.  You need more evals if the school didn't assess an area of need.  You can ask for an IEE at school expense if they missed an area that should have been assessed.  https://adayinourshoes.com/iee-independent-education-evaluation/

[Persistently Persistent]

Thank you.
 

We are having a second meeting because they allowed just one hour for the initial meeting, but then started 25 minutes late

the District employee who presented the IEP to the committee did not solicit any input from anyone. My impression is that she planned to present her IEP, get a parent sign off, and it would be done, with no discussion. there was no opportunity for consensus because no one else at the meeting spoke. I don’t know if they were intimidated by the district representative or what, but no one said a single word except me and the presenter. The presenter would present something I would give feedback and she would simply wait a beat then move onto the next issue.

In two cases where we were requesting specific assistance which was not included in her IEP she just said they’re not going to do it,  and moved on to the next item. She didn’t acknowledge or address any feedback we gave to the IEP she was presenting, and none of my feedback  is included in the second draft.

Yes, that’s right our child is not receiving any services and we’re heading for 6 months from the date that they agreed to do the testing  (the 60 days was drawn out because they started the first week of November and there were so many holidays and teacher in-service, grading days, etc. etc.) now we’re in a waiting pattern because we asked that we have a two hour meeting instead of returning multiple times for one hour meetings, but they said that trying to schedule a two hour meeting is a time-consuming challenge for them. (I understand that it might take a while to hold the meeting but I don’t understand why it has been two weeks and they still haven’t scheduled the meeting.)

We asked why our student could not attend this class and we were told it’s because parents have to give permission for her to take a class that’s not part of the standard curriculum and the only way we can do that is my signing the IEP  

I called the state thinking they might help us. The special ed person I spoke with seemed to believe that the district could be doing a better job and referred me to the department’s legal counsel, but he seems to think the district is doing everything it should be doing. For example, I asked, isn’t the presenter supposed to be soliciting input/facilitating a discussion among parents/the people who know our student? The state rep said “that would be very inefficient.”

 

[Persistently Persistent]

Yes, they did an evaluation. It was ordered in November, and conducted in late February. She has significant attentional issues, generalized anxiety and major depression, but no identifiable learning disabilities and, academically, she’s testing at grade level, (purely by osmosis.)

School avoidance is a big issue, she’s only attended 40% of the time this year, but they are saying that the family has to solve this as a prerequisite to receiving services. In the meeting I said we’re not asking for help getting her to the school house door, but there’s a reason she’s avoiding school and we would like some help with that. They just said “no.”

Getting her work completed and turned in is another big issue. She’s only turned in 20% of her assignments this year— almost all in-class assignments. That’s why we are hoping she could go to the executive skills class before the end of the year.

also, she can read, but she is a seriously reluctant reader.  I’m guessing she’s read fewer than 10 books in her entire life. If she doesn’t become a more efficient reader, she will not finish high school, let alone go to college. We asked them for help with her reading because we believe it’s directly related to her ADHD, but several places in the IEP they say “we’re not helping with reading because she knows how to read.”  
 

This child has two older siblings, each five years apart, who have the same issues she does. I’m guessing if they had ever been evaluated, they would look exactly the same. They received no help of any kind and then, at the end of their freshman years in high school, they were called into their counselor’s office and assisted to transfer to the GED track. (All 3 are Fall  babies, so they were turning 16 at the beginning of sophomore year) these are bright, capable girls, their life trajectories were altered forever by the lack of help from school.
 

It breaks my heart to see a third sister following the same track. I realize she’s not as challenged as her DD stepsister or deaf cousin, but her challenges are real.

[Persistently Persistent]

Murmer,

I don’t understand the value of the PWN in this case. They are making it clear that they don’t care what we say. And since they can implement the IEP without family agreement what’s the benefit of PWN?

[Murmer]

31 minutes ago, Persistently Persistent said:

Murmer,

I don’t understand the value of the PWN in this case. They are making it clear that they don’t care what we say. And since they can implement the IEP without family agreement what’s the benefit of PWN?

It is a paper trail, I know it feels like the meeting is the most important things but the meeting is just the beginning. Start gathering the data for what you feel like your child needs and the PWN is part of that data gathering. You get the school having to write out why they are saying no (again usually its just a because we said so) but it is evidence. Then you start working to get the data to prove them wrong (perhaps an IEE perhaps just evidences from other things). Is this the first IEP? If so they can not move forward without agreement but yes for any other IEP they can move forward and that is why you need the PWN. IF this had to go before a judge you want all the information that the school is refusing reasonable parental input a PWN does that. Yes it sucks that it means this is going to take longer as a process but it is a process and this is just 1 step. Get the PWN to show you tried to participate and they refused everything you tried to tell them. I have been there and honestly got the really ridiculous PWN of we won't because we said so but I was able to use that to eventually get my kid what she needed. (And some people have had schools when told to put it in the PWN suddenly change their minds and put it in the IEP so you may win anyway if you ask for the PWN).

[Persistently Persistent]

With 40% attendance and 20% assignment completion, which they reference in the IEP they developed, I think they have the data they need to document that she is not succeeding in school.

[Carolyn Rowlett]

Does the student at least have a 504?  To give her some accommodations for her attention issues, anxiety, and depression?  You might want to pursue this path WHILE you are fighting the IEP battle, just to get something in place.  Or is the school saying she doesn't have a disability because she doesn't have a diagnosis of ADHD or anxiety?  If so, request an IEE so that (hopefully) you can get some diagnoses on the record and they have to provide a 504.  Then when the IEP is finally implemented, the accommodations can switch over to that document.  They can DEFINITELY do something to support her with turning in homework.

It is untrue that the school doesn't have to address the school avoidance issue.  They have to look for the cause of the school avoidance and see what supports can be put in place to help the situation.  Otherwise, her missing so much school results in them not providing FAPE.  Request a Functional Behavioral Assessment (FBA).  If they refuse, ask for an IEE.

What does their "reading at grade level" mean?  Did they look at accuracy, fluency, AND comprehension?  She may be able to read, but if she is not reading fast enough and/or not understanding/retaining what she is reading, that might be why she is "reluctant" to read.  If the school eval didn't dig deep enough, again, ask for an IEE.

Unfortunately, is sounds like your state's DOE will be no help, and I'm sure the school district knows that.  Any legal counsel who says getting parent input is "inefficient" is ignorant regarding the IDEA.

[Persistently Persistent]

On 4/19/2023 at 10:33 AM, Murmer said:

It is a paper trail, I know it feels like the meeting is the most important things but the meeting is just the beginning. Start gathering the data for what you feel like your child needs and the PWN is part of that data gathering. You get the school having to write out why they are saying no (again usually its just a because we said so) but it is evidence. Then you start working to get the data to prove them wrong (perhaps an IEE perhaps just evidences from other things). Is this the first IEP? If so they can not move forward without agreement but yes for any other IEP they can move forward and that is why you need the PWN. IF this had to go before a judge you want all the information that the school is refusing reasonable parental input a PWN does that. Yes it sucks that it means this is going to take longer as a process but it is a process and this is just 1 step. Get the PWN to show you tried to participate and they refused everything you tried to tell them. I have been there and honestly got the really ridiculous PWN of we won't because we said so but I was able to use that to eventually get my kid what she needed. (And some people have had schools when told to put it in the PWN suddenly change their minds and put it in the IEP so you may win anyway if you ask for the PWN).

 

[Persistently Persistent]

How do we word the request for PWN?  Do we just say:

"Please provide us with Prior Written Notice for the district's refusal to complete a Functional Behavioral Assessment of our student's school avoidance."

Do we include the explanation for why we believe they should help with this?

 

[Murmer]

1 hour ago, Persistently Persistent said:

How do we word the request for PWN?  Do we just say:

"Please provide us with Prior Written Notice for the district's refusal to complete a Functional Behavioral Assessment of our student's school avoidance."

Do we include the explanation for why we believe they should help with this?

 

Basically just say at the IEP meeting we asked for the following items (then list what you asked for that they said no to), please provide us with the PWN for all of these items. And then expect the PWN to be stupid...but you are building the paper trail.

[Jenna]

Lisa has an article outlining how the sped system is stacked against parents. It stinks. Is there any way in your area to get your child help outside of school? Perhaps a nonprofit would have a reading program? Would hiring private tutors be a possibility? Keep advocating, attending meetings, requesting PWNs & such, but, it seems your district is unwilling to help your child. If there's any way to get help outside of school, I'd explore those options.

[JSD24]

Yes, to receive special instruction - which is what the class you requested falls under if it is a sp ed class - your child would need to have an IEP (a 504 might also be  something that could get your child into this class but it's the school's decision).  As far as outside tutoring for dyslexia (not sure if this is what you're looking for) The Scottish Rite provides free services.  There are also homeschool programs that cost less than an hour of a sp ed attorney's time.  Executive functioning is hard to teach.  You end up explicitly teaching each skill - how to organize homework, how to organize time to do homework, how to remember to bring homework to class A, B, C... (prompting for this is a good accommodation), how to bring what's needed home so you have what's needed to do homework - you get the picture with teaching each skill.

With an IEP meeting, it's always good to summarize what was gone over & email the summary:  During the meeting on 4/8, I had asked how the school would address the executive functioning issues that are causing homework not to be handed in so my child can get credit for work done.  Mrs. XX said that the school will not be doing that.  ...  Please confirm that this is correct.

https://adayinourshoes.com/after-iep-meeting/

[Persistently Persistent]

We sent them a request for PWN, we listed six services/resources that we requested in writing, but which they haven’t acknowledged/addressed/denied; just pretended we never mentioned any of them. 
 

is there a timeframe within which they are supposed to respond to requests for prior written notice? At this point we are six months out from the day they agreed to evaluate our child, passed the deadline to get an IEP in place, and mere weeks before summer vacation starts. Regrettably we’ve given up on the hope that our child would get some services while still in junior high. It seems like now the jr hi IEP committee will be focused on what should happen when she gets to high school next year, a place they know very little about. SMH

[Jenna]

My state doesn't have a set requirement for when a PWN must be issued after an IEP meeting. It's just a within a reasonable time. You may check your state's regs, and if there is a time requirement that has passed in your case, you could file a state complaint. If they issue a PWN that's incomplete, respond right away letting them know all the things that weren't included in the PWN and ask them to send you an updated PWN.

[Carolyn Rowlett]

I may have lost track of whether or not the second meeting has taken place yet, but either way, you need to start requesting that the meetings include members of the high school team (sometimes personal is not known until right before school starts, but they can at least invite those who would be part of the team if the next school year started tomorrow).  If you've already had the second meeting, request another meeting so that these future team members can be included.  It's nothing official in the IDEA, but these meetings are usually referred to as "transition meetings" (transitioning from elementary to junior high, junior high to high school, etc.).  It is a very common and reasonable request to make before your child enters high school.  If the junior high team refuses, make sure you reach out to the high school so that a meeting can be set up with your child's new IEP team as soon as possible after the school year starts.  Maybe even try to get it on their calendar now.

[Persistently Persistent]

Thank you. Second meeting hasn’t happened. We requested an outside facilitator and we’re waiting for him/her to re-schedule the meeting. Hopefully This delay will give us the opportunity to include someone from the high school.

[Persistently Persistent]

Is the district required to respond to a PWN? We haven’t received a response.