What to do when the clock runs out?

[Persistently Persistent]

We all signed the paperwork agreeing that our student needed to be evaluated last November. The testing finally started in February and an initial IEP meeting was scheduled for mid March. They didn’t allow enough meeting time and started late, so we did not get through the IEP. Apparently the follow up meeting was scheduled for late April; the district staff all showed up, but they forgot to notify the family!

They added several district administrators to the team, which makes scheduling more complicated; the second half of the initial IEP meeting was re-scheduled for mid May. 
We requested an outside facilitator. We made a point of asking the state if they could identify someone who could come to the May meeting already on the books, so that we could keep moving forward. They selected someone who said she was available for the May meeting, but after being assigned  she said she wanted to reschedule.

The district added two more administrators to the team, and the now the new meeting date is 2 1/2 months out from the initial aborted IEP meeting. Our student is going to end middle school having received no help. 

we’ve received some comments from district and school folks indicating that we need to sign this IEP fast, or there will be some kind of consequences because it has dragged on so long. We feel that we have done everything we could think of to try and goose this along, it’s not our fault that we are looking at a meeting nearly 7 months from the day we signed the paperwork agreeing our child needed help. The delays are on their side, and adding all of these administrators makes it hard to schedule anything in a timely manner.

we felt a lot of urgency in November, December, January, February, March, and April, but now that it is too late for our child to get any help from middle school, it doesn’t make sense to us to sit in a room full of middle school administrators making a plan about what’s going to happen in high school. But we’re  told that’s not allowed, there’s some kind of major consequence if we don’t sign off on this quickly, while she’s in middle school.

our sense of urgency has evaporated, we are focused on trying to get an IEP that we hope will serve her in high school.  But we’re getting pressured to sign off on the district’s IEP.

What are the important considerations in our situation? What is the consequence if the clock runs out while she is still in middle school, or if no IEP is agreed to seven months after the process has been initiated?

[JSD24]

So the team as met twice - once where the meeting started late and a 2nd time where they forgot to invite the parents.  This 2nd meeting wasn't an IEP meeting because there wasn't adequate notification for parents to attend (at least IMO).  You said they did meet and changed what they proposed as FAPE.  I'm assuming they gave you a copy of this IEP to sign off on but your feeling is that it still needs tweaking.

My thought is for you to go through the evaluation report and list out the areas of need they mention and come up with a list of what the IEP should address.  Next step is to go through the IEP & see if they did address the areas where they mention a need.  From there, you can write a parent concerns letter saying you are concerned that the eval says there are the following areas that need to be addressed that are not addressed.  See if you can hash out the tweaks via back & forth email and come up with something you're willing to sign off on.  IEP meetings tend not to happen in the summer because teachers aren't contracted to work & they are a required IEP team member - you need 2, one sp ed teacher & another gen ed teacher to have an official meeting.  Excusing these team members from attending is also an option if you want to move this forward over the summer.

My child's 1st IEP meeting was help on June 15.  I remember the date as it's my mom's birthday.  This was at the tail end of 8th grade.  I believe it was mostly HS staff; the meeting was held in the HS.  Are they adding HS staff with the additional people they are inviting to the meeting?

With a delay like this, the fear would be that the data gets stale.  There are changes to the baseline where the student's needs have changed.  If you can afford it, see about having an advocate help you with going through the eval & the IEP to see if things are all addressed.  If you see a need and there's nothing in the eval about it, you might need to request an eval that covers that area.  Since the delays were due to how the school did things, in theory, your child should get back services to make up for this.  This might not make sense.  (We were told my son was going to get COVID compensatory services.  His IEP was all about keeping up with his classes.  They wanted to do these services during the summer when he had no class to keep up with.  If this is you child's situation, it might not make sense to get make up services.)

I think your urgency should be making sure HS gets off on the right foot.

[Carolyn Rowlett]

A couple of suggestions.

1.  Ask what the role is of each administrator.  What do they bring to the table in terms of knowledge of the child?  Only one administrator is required (if even that) for purposes of fulfilling the LEA role.  If they don't bring any additional information to the meeting, ask that the meeting be held without them if scheduled on a time they can't make it.

2.  It's not true that high school IEP team members cannot be invited to a meeting held at the end of middle school.  In fact, they SHOULD be invited.  Unfortunately, a lot of times school districts don't know who their staff is going to be in all positions until right before the start of the new school year.  But you could at least ask that the current case manager, special education teacher, principal or vice principal, etc., in the high school attend.

3.  You could file a state complaint, because you are exactly correct - it is the school district's fault that the clock is running out.  The "consequence" (out of compliance) is on their end.  But I'm not sure if a state complaint gets you anywhere in this situation other than upsetting the school district.  It might be used as leverage to get compensatory services over the summer due to all their delays.

4.  Just to avoid the argument that "you declined special education services," I agree with JSD24 that you should probably sign some version of the IEP.  As JSD24 suggested, try to get as much of what you want in there, but know that you can always add a statement after your signature that you agree with the exception of "x, y, and z."

5.  I also like JSD24's suggestion of holding the IEP meeting in the summer by excusing the teachers, if a date cannot be agreed upon before then.

6.  Lastly and most importantly (IMO), you are correct that the data is going to be stale by the time high school starts, but since the school evaluation was done in November, they can refuse to do another one until next November.  My suggestion would be to request an IEE.  It can be done over the summer and you can get an IEP meeting on the calendar for the beginning of the school year to go over the results, make changes to the IEP, and have all high school team members in attendance.  Remember, you don't have to give a reason for your disagreement with the school district's evaluation to get an IEE - just a statement that you do disagree.  But in any event, I think a nine month old (by the time high school starts) evaluation with summer regression is a good reason.

[Persistently Persistent]

Thank you. I communicated with them. I requested in advance copy of the IEP they brought to the first meeting. I brought written feedback on that IEP, a copy for each person in the room, and I spoke up in the first meeting. No notes were taken of the meeting, (or at least none were shared,) so there was no record of any of our feedback or their response. then I followed up with thorough written feedback on the second draft and reiterated the comments I made at the initial meeting. They literally have not acknowledge that we have communicated with them in anyway.

So I sent them a request for PWN on six items that we’ve been asking about that they have declined to acknowledge, address or respond to. They have not acknowledged our request for PWN, let alone responded to it.

The “second draft” of the IEP is not different from the first one in anyway except that they have invited a bunch more administrators.  

I let them know that dad (limited English proficient, limited education, high social anxiety, extremely intimidated by people who act in charge; not a meeting kind of guy) is really intimidated by all of the brass that they now have coming to the meeting, (not to mention that there are now seven people at the meeting who could not pick our student out of a lineup, and three people who actually know her) and could we please only include the people who are necessary. Again, they didn’t acknowledge my communication.

I spoke with a local advocate, she said that the IEP meeting is the district’s meeting and they can have whomever they want there, they don’t have to explain why they want them there or what their role is . And since they ignore any attempt we make to communicate with them, I would not expect an answer from them.

we are trying to be clear and forthright about what we think our student needs, and they are not communicating with us in any way: they haven’t responded to any written communication we’ve sent their way, there are no notes of any comments we made at the initial IEP meeting, and they are unwilling to share anything about their thinking behind what’s important to them/the choices they made in their IEP. Something as simple as….  I asked who was on the committee that developed the IEP they brought to the first meeting. They wouldn’t tell us  

 

 

 

[Jenna]

Did the school threaten you with a consequence for not signing their draft IEP? If so, what was/is the consequence? What state are you in? Does your state require parent agreement of the IEP? My state only requires parent permission to evaluate & on the initial IEP. RIEPs do not require parent agreement/permission; the parent just has to be invited to attend IEP meetings.

As to all the administrators attending your IEP meetings, as others have said, the people who attend the IEP meetings are supposed to have knowledge of the child, but, the school can even invite their superintendent if they want. Parents have no control over who on the school side attends an IEP meeting in my state anyway.

[Persistently Persistent]

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices.

Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there  are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March
 

i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while  in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school.  We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

[Carolyn Rowlett]

You need to list on your parent concerns "failure to respond to communication from parent."

Call your state department of education and ask what you can do when the school is refusing to communicate with you.  The fact that they won't tell you who was on the team that developed the initial IEP without you and without sending a meeting notification to you is a GREAT example to tell the state, since this is COMPLETELY unacceptable.

As far as your concern about not signing the IEP, since this IS an initial IEP (if I'm reading your post correctly), you probably (check with your state) have to sign it in order for your student to receive services.  I understand that services at this point at the middle school level are meaningless, but from a practical standpoint, I would sign it and list all the things you disagree with on the signature page or reference an attached page.  The IEP can ALWAYS be changed when the high school team is put in place.  If you really don's want to sign, call the state and ask what the consequence will be.  I would even tell them that the school district told their state facilitator that there would be "dire consequences" and you would like to know what that means.

*See Lisa's post below regarding signing the IEP.  I didn't read through all of it, so I'm not sure if she addresses initial IEP's.

Are any of the "administrators" the director of special education?  If not, I think it's time to get him/her involved.  Start copying them on all your correspondence AND forward them all correspondence to which you have not received a response.  Also, to make sure you hit the ground running in high school, ask the director who you need to contact to schedule a meeting with the high school IEP team and when can that occur - the end of this school year, the beginning of next school year?  Your problem may be a "building" problem - that is, the middle school is just trying to "wait it out" until the student goes to high school.  You might have better luck with the high school IEP team.

I would still suggest, as I did in an earlier post, to request an IEE so that you can gather more recent data over the summer in preparation to discuss the IEP for the high school years.  It also gives you an excuse, if you need one, to schedule a meeting with the high school team. 

 

https://adayinourshoes.com/sign-the-iep/

[Persistently Persistent]

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices.

Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there  are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March
 

i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while  in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school.  We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

[Persistently Persistent]

As I read through this forum, and other ADIOS postings I get the impression that parents matter in this process, but pretty sure our school district would disagree. 

If the school ignores every communication we initiate with them, without responding, and with no consequence, where’s the parental leverage? 

if the district is free to ignore a request for PWN, what’s the point of submitting such a request?

We’re told it’s important to create a paper trail. But If there are no consequences for simply ignoring the parents, how does a paper trail help? 

If the district can initiate the IEP without parental consent, and doesn’t value parental input, where is their motivation to work with parents?

If the school can run out the clock without having provided any services, with no consequence, where is the parent’s leverage?

Our district is ignoring us. we don’t see that we have the slightest leverage, and the school district clearly doesn’t think we have the slightest leverage either.
 

 

[Carolyn Rowlett]

I'll attempt to answer your questions in order.

1.  File a state complaint.  That's your only leverage at this point.  Your complaint/compliance issue would be that the school district is not complying with the requirement to have parent participation during the IEP process.

2.  Paper train for your state complaint.  Additional compliance issue:  failure to provide PWN and failure to response to request.

3.  You're going to have to force the consequences by filing a state complaint.

4.  I find it hard that an initial IEP (which this is, correct?) does not have to be signed by the parent.  Usually the start of providing special education services requires consent by signing the initial IEP.  After the initial IEP, continuation of services in subsequent IEP documents can usually be done without parent consent (but this is state specific).  If you are getting no response to your requests to be involved, their only motivation at this point will be a state investigation which will occur after you file a state complaint.

5.  Again, your only recourse at this point is a state complaint.  In addition to the above, also list "failure to comply with 60 day timeline."  The state is going to have to be the entity that provides the consequences.

Usually state complaints are not hard to file and do not necessitate an advocate or attorney.  The state provides you with a form.  If you have questions about it, you can call the special education department  (compliance division?) of your state department of education.  They should be willing to assist you in completing the form.  They might also have a list of agencies (free) to which they can refer you.

[Persistently Persistent]

Right, that’s my understanding the district can invite whoever they want, and they don’t have to explain anything to us about their choices.

Our state does not require parents to sign off on the IEP. They haven’t threatened us with anything. the neutral facilitator who will facilitate the meeting whenever it gets scheduled, relayed to me that she spoke with the district about our suggestion that we focus on high school at this point. she said the district told her there  are dire consequences to not signing the IEP they developed back in March
 

i’m trying to understand what our situation is at this point? We’ve felt a tremendous amount of frustrated urgency in the last year, but we don’t see any reason to be rushed through the process at this point; With mere weeks left on the academic calendar It’s too late for our student to receive any services while  in middle school. we have to switch gears and focus on high school.  We’d like that to be done in a thoughtful manner.

[Persistently Persistent]

Thank you. In our state parents have to sign that they’ve read the IEP,  but the district doesn’t need parent sign off to implement their plan. 

[JSD24]

With a 1st IEP, parents do have to sign off on their child receiving sp ed services.  The school cannot provide IEP services w/o written permission from the parents that it's OK.  With a 2nd or 3rd or 27th IEP, another signature generally isn't required.

If your OK wasn't required, they should have already started services after your March meeting.

[driven_cosmos]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:00 PM, Persistently Persistent said:

No notes were taken of the meeting, (or at least none were shared,) so there was no record of any of our feedback or their response. then I followed up with thorough written feedback on the second draft and reiterated the comments I made at the initial meeting.

You have a lot of other good advice, but this stood out to me for someone new to the process.  

I email the entire team my own meeting notes within a day of the meeting that include what was discussed and agreed to (or not).  I thank them for meeting with me, and attach my notes to the email.  I request that they review these notes and to please let me know if I have misunderstood anything in our meeting.  Most times they don't comment back.  But this can be helpful down the road if you ever need to demonstrate that something was agreed to or discussed on that date.  If they did not respond, they pretty much confirmed those notes were true and accurate.